Nathan Hirsch, founder of FreeeUp, shares his journey starting from Amazon to FreeeUp, a marketplace that taps into the top 1% of online freelancers,

Time-Stamped Show Notes:
• 01:11 – Nathan’s journey from the beginning and the motivator behind it.
• 04:43 – The story of FreeeUp.
• 07:28 – The most common first hire for Amazon sellers.
• 08:36 – The 3-Month Rule..
• 11:04 – Knowledgebase tips and structure.
• 13:42 – Nathan talks about team communication.
• 16:42 – Common issues Amazon sellers encounter when outsourcing.
• 19:28 – Nathan talks about the time when his business was really down.
• 21:13 – How he dealt with the issue.
• 23:31 – Nathan is a great fan of Zappos
• 26:27 – Nathan’s three pieces of advice when it comes to hiring freelancers.

Resources from This Interview:
• Google Drive
The 4-Hour Workweek
Start With Why
Impact Theory Podcast
10 Most Common Mistakes of Oursourcing

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Disclaimer: As with any digital marketing campaign, your individual results may vary.

Full Transcript of The Episode

Danny: [00:00:23] This is Actualize Freedom. The no-bullshit podcast for selling on Amazon and lifestyle optimization. My name is Danny Carlson and today we have Nathan Hirsch, founder of FreeeUp, a marketplace that taps into the top 1% of online freelancers. After starting out buying and selling student textbooks out of his dorm, he’s now sold more than 30 million dollars on Amazon across a six-year period. And for that business, he’s worked at over 150 employees globally. With a resume like that, you can bet I’m going to bug him for his team building knowledge and help you guys scale up your online businesses. So welcome to the show Nathan.

Nathan: [00:00:58] Thanks so much for having me. I’m excited to be here.

Danny: [00:01:00] Awesome man. So can I get you to take us on a quick journey in your business career starting from that college dorm room to where you are today with 30 million dollars sold on Amazon.

Nathan: [00:01:11] Yeah so back when I was in college, I grew up my parents were both teachers so I had this mentality that I was going to go through life, go through college, get a job, work for 40 years, retire and that was going to be it. And when I started doing these internships, I realized that’s not what I wanted to do. I didn’t want that 40-hour a week job. I wasn’t motivated. I didn’t enjoy it. So I knew that I had pretty much till the end of college to build some kind of business or else that was going to be my life. So I hustled. I tried to find every possible way to make money. And the first way I found was buying and selling textbooks. At the end of every semester, I would offer more money than the bookstore, hold onto the books, sell them at the beginning of next semester and I’m marketed it pretty well. Before I knew it, I had lines out the door of people trying to sell me their books to the point where the school actually sent me a cease-and-desist letter because I was taking up so much of their business. So that was my first glimpse into being an entrepreneur. And you don’t sell books for very long without learning about Amazon. And back then there were no courses, there were no gurus, Amazon was just becoming more than a bookstore. And I wanted to get away from books they were heavy. I knew I couldn’t sell them forever. And I started experimenting. I tried sporting equipment. I tried DVDs, computers and I failed over and over and over. I couldn’t get anything to sell. And it wasn’t until I branched out of my comfort zone and found a niche in the baby products that my business really started to take off. So if you can picture me as a 20, 21-year-old single college guy selling baby products out of my college dorm room, that was what I was. And so this business grew and scaled. I spent all day listing products, figuring out systems, trial and error, trial and error. And as his business grew, I need to start hiring people and the only people around me were college kids, which I quickly found out was very unreliable and I couldn’t hire any 35-year-old. No one’s going to come work for me. So I was really forced into tapping into the remote hiring world, the Upwork, the Fiverrs of the world to find talent to help me build these businesses and what I realized was how long it took me to actually get access to the talent on these platforms, and that’s really when I came up with the idea for FreeeUp.

Danny: [00:03:31] That’s awesome man. Yeah I can definitely relate to the motivator behind you starting off they called textbooks there. Similarly, when I was younger I was a carpenter for 6 years and I hated that job. I absolutely hated it. I was looking for any other way to make money. Started making videos as a side hustle. Just anything. So Amazon was definitely my way out of the-forever-shitty job so to speak there.

Nathan: [00:03:55] Yeah and it was kind of cool because at these internships, they pushed customer service into my head. I went through so much customer service training and we all know how Amazon is with customer service especially early on especially when you are dropshipping like me. So I felt like I had such a competitive advantage because I had five years of intense customer service training, but when I got to Amazon that was already what they wanted me to do, I already knew how to do it.

Danny: [00:04:23] Absolutely. So the next part of your story here is the FreeeUp marketplace, right? And you’re an organic entrepreneur. You kind of just went into it and figured it out as it goes, right? You didn’t get an MBA. You didn’t go to a business school. You just learned through the school of hard knocks and figuring it out what works. So is that kind of the story of the FreeeUp marketplace as well?.

Nathan: [00:04:43] Yeah. I mean I did graduate college, but I haven’t exactly used that degree, but yeah. My version of entrepreneurship is I don’t use mentors. I don’t use gurus. I don’t take courses. There’s nothing wrong with that. I have nothing against it. For me, being an entrepreneur, the fun of it is trial and error and figuring out new things and trying to do things that other people are doing. And I was able to get into Amazon before it became a big thing. And even now when everyone is trying to sell digital products and courses and stuff, FreeeUp is a very different business model obviously. So for me, I like to look for a low-risk-high-reward situation. So I mean, if you go back to Amazon, I was dropshipping baby products. What’s the risk? I mean I’d make a few people angry, I stopped doing it, I refund them. But the reward was I build this they dropshipping business. Same thing with FreeeUp. I mean even recently, I hired someone to take over my Twitter account. And worst case scenario, I spent three months, I spent a few hundred dollars and I fire them or they do some bad tweets and I delete them. But best case is it becomes a great lead generation tool. My social media presence goes up and I never have to deal with it anymore. So I’m constantly trying new things low risk and high reward. And when something works, I put more money into it and when something doesn’t work, I reel it back.

Danny: [00:06:01] I love that mindset for evaluating opportunities in entrepreneurial world. I think so many people get caught up way too much in the tactics, the new videos, the new courses. You know information overload. But in reality, you learn the best when you’re just trying stuff out and figuring out what works, right? And you got to remember, everything you learn in a YouTube video from some Amazon influencer, that information has been passed around to a whole ton of people and it was figured out by someone else who is thinking creatively and trying out new things to see what works. Probably it was more effective for them as well when they figure it out and not everybody was doing it, right?

Nathan: [00:06:41] Yeah and don’t get me wrong. I have a lot of clients who make a lot of money who probably make more money than I do following these gurus and these mentors. So there is a time and a place for that. For whatever reason, that’s just not fun for me. I would never want to copy what someone else is doing. I want to figure it out for myself. And I found that, by experimenting new things, I tend to find things before other people when other people are following.

Danny: [00:07:03] I love it. Absolutely love it. All right. So let’s hop into some tactical advice here. So most of the audience is an Amazon seller that either only has a few freelancers or maybe one or two general virtual assistants working for them. Most of them probably are looking to make that first hire pretty soon here. So what is the most common first hire for Amazon sellers and what can they expect to pay for that hire?

Nathan: [00:07:28] Sure. So what I recommend doing is coming up with a list that everything you do on a day to day, week to week, month to month basis. It c ould be customer service, bookkeeping, sourcing, any kind of data entry or work that’s actually business operations and order it from easiest to hardest and get a virtual assistant to start taking those things off your plate. Get an hour in your day back, get two hours in your day back where you can focus on big picture stuff, the sales, the marketing, the expansion. So you can hire someone in that five-day dollar-hour range to handle a lot of this stuff. And with FreeUp I mean, we only have experienced freelancers. These aren’t someone that’s waking up and tried doing trial and error on your business. So sometimes you’ll find that these people are better at doing repetitive tasks than you are and that’s why I implemented three-month rule. I don’t do anything longer than three months without taking it out or take it off my plate, outsource it to someone else.

Danny: [00:08:22] Okay so with that three-month rule there, is that kind of like you’ve got to set the process, you’ve got to figure out whatever the standard operating procedure is, refine the system so that you can hand it off to someone else? Is that the idea there?

Nathan: [00:08:36] Yeah. It usually takes me around three months to first try it out and see what works and what doesn’t work and then go through the process, figure out where those bugs are and then be able to get someone else to do it, show them, give them feedback, start that feedback loop, and take it off my plate. And there are tasks where I take it off my plate in 2 weeks and there are task that might, not by choice, take that extra few weeks after three months. But for the most part, I try to get stuff off my plate for 3 months and I’m not talking about my core competency. I’m not talking about things that greatly advance my business. I’m talking about the day-to-day repetitive mundane operations.

Danny: [00:09:10] Okay. So yeah. For Amazon sellers, they’ll probably look for something like customer service is probably one of the first ones like the Amazon customer emails, people asking for refunds, go on processing the refunds, basic monitoring the listings, make if a one star review comes in responding to that using templates and stuff like that. Other than that, what else is a 5 to 8 dollar an hour employee is going to be capable of when it comes to Amazon sellers?

Nathan: [00:09:38] Yeah I mean we have people that will monitor pricing or teach them how to use the softwares out there whether it’s the JungleScouts of the world or the ____ for pricing. We have people who will follow client to listing templates. We do have people in that price range that can list if they do have instructions and processes to follow. We have people who do sourcing whether it’s wholesale or going through different manufacturers. We use it for lead generation. I use it for lead generation on my Amazon business, but we use it for lead generation on FreeeUp as well where we have them research, “Hey, this person dropships and this person allows FBA. Okay. They’re within the size or within the price range. Okay. Here are the templates. Email them. Contact them. Try to get them on the phone with me.” So you can really get creative once you have that virtual assistant you rely on to just try different things, try outsourcing different parts of your business and even try to outsource parts that expand your business a little bit.

Danny: [00:10:31] That’s awesome. Yes. The one thing that I have seen is super super valuable to this whole process and I’m sure you’d agree is your actual knowledge base, your internal standard operating procedures so that you’re not just handing o ff, “Hey, I want this resolved. Go make it happen right.” Right? Because a lot of these lower paid employees, you know they’re their lower paid for a reason, right? You’ve got to pay a lot more for someone who’s like, “This is my crazy problem. Go spend two months figuring out this whole project.” Right? So how do you structure your knowledge base? Like what kind of software or structure? Any tips you can give on that?

Nathan: [00:11:04] So I’m a very basic person when it comes to that. So first of all, we’re a marketplace for freelancers and not employees. I just have to correct you there but in terms of the actual stuff, I use Skype which is a free tool. You can create group chats. You have everything in writing. It’s easy to go back to you. It’s great because I can talk with clients as well as freelancers. I use Trello to split up between day-to-day, short-term and long-term projects. So all the VAs that work for me, they’ll have day-to-day stuff. They’re responsible for everyday. It’s Kind of like a checklist. Then I’ll assign short term stuff. It could be a project here or project here. Hey, get me a list of 500 leads for this or whatever it is and then I’ll have more long term stuff that might take a month or two where you get to a Friday and it’s dead it’s slow. OK, they can start chipping away at these long term projects. So I use that to organize. For Developers, I use JIRA which is just a more advanced version of like Asana or Trello. And then I have my stuff on Google Docs for the actual documentation. But what I do with that is I don’t have time to create this stuff and update it. So what I do is I create the basic outline and then I make it the person t hat I hire in job to update it as I teach them. But also keep it updated over time because I’m a systems and process person and my systems and processes are always changing. It’s one of the reasons that I almost never make training videos because they just get outdated incredibly fast. So when we tweak something and when we change something, I encourage people to bring ideas and feedback on how to make these systems better. It’s also their job to update the system every time we implement something.

Danny: [00:12:44] Yeah I love that. I ran into a bad problem with creating training videos and then becoming outdated. That was my first mistake. I would make like a 20-minute long training video of an entire process and then we switch around some of the softwares in that process so the process change. And now that 20-minute video is garbage. If you write it out the actual physical writing and maybe screenshots, you can just alter it. Just delete a bit of it and replace it with the next bit, right? So for you nerds out there I’m pretty nerdy about creating really good SOPs and knowledgebase. I use a program called Confluence by Atlassian. It’s like 10 dollars a month for up to 10 users and it’s just a really good place to have an organized knowledge base, a little bit more advanced than Google Drive. So I just want to jump into a bit more about team communication. What are the major roles that you have right now personally in your e-commerce business just from like a ____.

Nathan: [00:13:42] Sure. So I actually stopped my e-commerce business at the end of last year and transitioned with Freeeup. We have three partners with that. Two of us started FreeeUp and transferred it to the third person. But with my e-commerce business, the way I had it set up was I had an accountant, I had a U.S. bookkeeper and then I had a non U.S. day-to-day billing persons. Who can keep everything up to date. So I would spend less money on the U.S. bookkeeper and the U.S. accountant that I use twice a year. Then I would have someone who was in charge of listing. I’d have someone that was in charge of pricing. I’d have a customer service manager in the U.S. with few people in the Philippines underneath them and that was really the core team. I left that order placement. We had a group of order placement people as well. Whenever we wanted to ramp up, we would just plug people in underneath. So when we got closer to a busy season, we were at in 3 customer service people, 5 order people, whatever it was. And that’s really how we built our team. We had those structures there that we were just able to put people in because we h ave those documents. It didn’t take us six months to get someone on the same page. It took us a week or two.

Danny: [00:14:51] Yes. So it seems like you have like one localized person kind of overseeing stuff and you’re trying to plug in a lot of these overseas workers and freelancers to be working underneath them. Is that the idea you got going on?

Nathan: [00:15:05] Yeah. So with FreeeUp, we did it a little bit different. FreeeUp is entirely remote. We have no employees. It’s just Connor and I and freelancers. We hire freelancers from the FreeeUp marketplace, the same freelancers that are available to clients. And last week, freelancers billed me about 800 hours. So I do really practice what I preach. But it’s a lot different. It’s mostly non US. It’s about 80 percent non US. So people that cover my Skypes, my email 24/7, the customer service, people that do the billing for the clients, very same structure but it’s a much bigger non US billing team than US. Same thing for our social media. We’ll have someone who manage the posting and surround them with a graphic designer, surround them with a video editor and then add a US Facebook AD person and a US email marketing expert. So for high level stuff, we’ll plug in those U.S. freelancers and for a lot of those repetitive tasks which most of it ends up being you built such good processes, we’ll plug in the non U.S. basic level freelancer.

Danny: [00:16:09] Yeah that definitely makes a lot of sense. I found it really difficult to get the overseas workers to do a lot of the critical thinking work. But like you said it is really expensive to have the U.S. workers doing the entire funnel, right? Especially with time-intensive things like video editing and all customer service stuff and stuff like that. So that’s definitely interesting stuff. So when it comes to Amazon sellers, what do you think the biggest issue is that they run into you that you see Amazon sellers running into when they’re outsourcing and hiring their first freelancers.

Nathan: [00:16:42] Sure. So a lot of it goes into mentality. So what I like to do is divide it up into three levels. You’ve got the basic level freelancer, the midlevel and you got the expert level. So the basic level, 5 to 10 bucks an hour, non US. They have years of experience, but the way that you do something is going to be different the way that I do something. They’re really there to follow up your systems and your processes. This could be sourcing. It could be customer service. It could be even listing. But they’re there to really follow the way you want it done. Then you’ve got the midlevel, that 10 to 30 range. They could be graphic designers. They could be bookkeepers. They could be Amazon listing specialists who do the same thing eight to 10 hours a day. You’re not really teaching them. They’re not really there to consult with you. They’re doers. And then you got the experts of 25 and up and they can project manage. They can audit your whole account and give you systems and processes, help you create those. They consult with you. They can do high-level stuff. Maybe it’s PPC. Maybe it’s external traffic. Maybe it’s really do getting you onto another marketplace like on Europe whatever it is. And a lot of people when they’re going about hiring due to either not knowing or maybe budgetary reasons or they hear someone that hired this 5 dollar an hour worker took their business to the next level. They hired the wrong thing where they really need an expert, but they hired the lower level. They really need a specialist but they hired the expert. So what I really want you to do if you’re listening is focus. What do I actually need for my business? Do I have my systems and processes in place to the point where I can hire a lower level person? Do I just need something done, I just have all these projects that I haven’t been able to do. I don’t have the manpower. So I can plug in these specialists to do them? Or do I have no direction? Do I need an expert to come in and help me create a game plan to eventually create those system and process for the lower end and that’s where I see people go wrong.

Danny: [00:18:31] That is a super super good gold nugget right there. That’s something I commonly hear from Amazon sellers is they hired the three dollar or five dollar an hour general virtual assistant and expect them to be a rockstar, right? They just read “The 4-Hour Workweek” by Tim Ferriss and they’re like, Yeah. I’m gonna get the most amazing employee and everything is going to be great, right? But it can create a job for yourself, right? If you have three general virtual assistants, they all take direction from you. It now becomes a significant role to be leading those three general virtual assistants, right? So super super good gold n ugget that you got for us there. When it comes to mindset as well, you’ve been an entrepreneur for something like 10 years, I’m sure you’ve been through some crazy entrepreneurial journeys. Is there a particular time when you’ve got yourself in like a really defeated mindset or some kind a negative mental rut from something that happened in business and you had to work to get out of it?

Nathan: [00:19:28] Yeah. So back when I was a young entrepreneur and I started this Amazon business and I’m 21, I’m crushing Amazon. I’m making more money than I should. And I had this brilliant idea to hire a manager of the day. The start of business was stressing me out. I was working so much. So I spent six months training this person. How do you do orders. How you do listings. How do you do customer service. And after six months, he was great. I could sleep better at night. He could do everything. On the manufacturer’s side, I did the same thing. I was crushing it with this manufacturer. I didn’t bother spending time going out and selling new ones. No one really wanted to listen to a 21-year-old anyways. So I was just thankful that I had this one. And I put all my eggs in one basket. So I go to take my first vacation after a year and a half of building this Amazon business. I’m on top of the world. I got off some friends. Im’ ready to party and on the first day of the vacation, I got three phone calls. One from the manufacturer telling me they no longer want to do business with me. Second from that person I spent six months training telling me that his parents wanted him to focus on school and he was quitting (learned a lesson by hiring college kids.) And last from my accountant telling me that someone had filed a fake tax return in my name and stolen my identity and I was going to have to deal with that when I got back. So I go from this unbelievable high to this bottom low. Everything I just worked for for the past year and a half was out the window and I did come back and start from scratch.

Danny: [00:20:56] That is a lot to deal with right there. So how did you do it? What were the steps? You were in this negative mindset. You’re really defeated. How do you regain the confidence and the composure to continue on as an entrepeneur instead of just quitting and going back to being the intern?

Nathan: [00:21:13] Hell yeah. So one of the things about me is I’m very logical. Obviously, it hurt. It hit me hard, but when I’m problem solving, I’m usually able to remove all emotion from it. And when I problem solve, I always do the same thing. I gather all the information first. How did this happen? How much money do we have in the bank account? What resources do we have? How Long can we continue before we have to shut down? Whatever it is get all the information. Step 2 is execute a game plan. Okay we have this much money. We have these people even though they’re mostly low-level people but we at least have them as resources. What’s the plan? The plan is to go out and contact more manufacturers. We need more manufacturers. We want to build this business back up so we diversified and built contact and built relationship with all these manufacturers. When we started building and the business went up, the next thing is putting steps in place so that you don’t make that exact same mistake again. So when we hire, we didn’t just hire one person for everything. We departmentalized. One person for customer service, one person order, one person per listing. So if someone quit on me and it wouldn’t be the last person t hat quit on me, it took me a week to get a new person in the system rather than six months. So I’m very fortunate that that happened to me in year one and not in year five. But I learned so much from that and that’s really the mentality I take from problem solving. I mean we’re dealing with real people, real freelancers on FreeeUp. I mean 99 percent of the time they do a fantastic job and I spend very little time dealing with issues. Every once in a while something pops up usually small and the exact same process. They get all the information. Figure out what the options are. Execute one of those options and put steps in place so that can never happen again.

Danny: [00:22:53] I love your mindset when it comes to learning from your mistakes rather than taking them personally because that way you can actually, like you said, you learn how to not make it happen again and you can continue moving forward instead of if you take it personally saying like, Oh. I’m a failure as a businessman. You know I really screwed up and embarrassed some of my friends and my family or whatever like that. Then you’re not going to be able to learn. You’re not going to be able to continue. Maybe businesse is not for your, right? So I really love that mindset.

Nathan: [00:23:21] Thank you.

Danny: [00:23:21] Ok so I just have a few rapid fire questions for you. So first off, what entrepreneur, project or company today inspires you the most?

Nathan: [00:23:31] Great question. Who? I’m a huge fan of Zappos only because I actually buy their shoes and I know their customer service. And I was such a customer service freak. I’m a customer service nerd if that even exist. I just know that focusing on the long term big picture and the relationship just always outweighs the short term and I’ve had people tell me that I’m crazy like the way I go about it. We’ve had clients who will come to me for like let’s say that a freelancer missed a due date by a day or something. And I will gather all the information like oh that person billed me three hours. It was a three-hour refund plus some free hours of a new work where I get them a person right away and boom like they’re made whole again instantly and they’re just blown away. And I know the value of that because you turn someone that’s so upset into a lifetime client, right? Or in their case, a customer, and all the stuff that I’ve learned from the Firestorm Corporation, the Internet, that Zappos has done over the years. It all comes down into running business and when you have that philosophy, you’re going to build a very strong long term business.

Danny: [00:24:33] Yes Zappos is pretty inspiring too, yeah. They, it seemed like a stupid business model at first paying for shipping both ways on shoes. But I mean, it worked out for them, right? They got bought out for a large sum of money. Okay. Next question. What is the current book that you’re reading or the last one that you finished, business book.

Nathan: [00:24:55] Start With Why. And that really resonates with me. So with my Amazon business, you have to remember I wasn’t doing private label. I wasn’t building my own product. I wasn’t necessarily passionate about the baby products. Even today I don’t have kids. So for me, running this Amazon business for a while was great. It was exciting. It was fun. But after a while, after I realized that I wasn’t going to build it into a hundred million dollar company and that it was going to be what it is, I lost the passion for it. There was no Why. I was just doing it to help me, my manufacturers, my team, and my paycheck. Where with FreeeUp I mean, the Why is incredible. I get to talk with podcasters like you, the webinars and conferences. I get to help clients all over around the world free up their business, grow their business, and the freelancer side. I mean, we paid out over 3 million dollars to freelancers last year. I was just in the Philippines and people were showing me their houses or cars, things they were able to buy for their family. So the Why is so important and I feel like sometimes people miss out on that when they build their business and I know that I will personally never make that mistake again.

Danny: [00:25:58] I love that. Yeah, I love that book as well. Simon Sinek is a really really good mind in business. For those of you listening who don’t know Impact Theory podcast with Tom Bilyeu. He’s the founder of a Quest Nutrition, billion dollar protein bar company. But he has a great podcast episode with Simon Sinek on there. I definitely recommend that. So to close things out here, Nathan. What are the three best pieces of advice for the audience when it comes to hiring freelancers?

Nathan: [00:26:27] Nice. So first is set expectations. Too many people. Once they spend all t hose time going through applicants, they interview them and then boom. Let’s get started. OK here’s a huge task. Let’s give this person all this work and they skip the step where they need to give expectations. I have incredibly high expectations. I lay it out. These are my pet peeves. This is how I communicate. This is what’s expected from you and I even give them a chance to back out. I would much rather the person backs out and doesn’t waste my time, energy or money than have them just proceed forward because they think that they can make me happy. So for tip 1 is definitely set those expectations. Tip 2 is diversify for reasons that we already talked about. Don’t put yourself in the shoes where it takes you six months to replace someone in your business. So many entrepreneurs when they make bad hire after bad hire after bad hire and then they finally find someone they really like and they just load them up with everything which puts your business in a huge amount of risk. And 3 is start a feedback loop. Some of the best ideas, the ones that made me the most money or cut the most cost came from other people. They didn’t come from me. And that’s because I create an environment where I can give feedback to them and they won’t take it personally. They can get feedback to me and so I can improve as a person, as a manager and as a leader. They give feedback on the systems or processes. I take feedback from the clients o r freelancers. I’m constantly always asking for a feedback. It is the best and easiest way to grow your business and if you have a culture where you’re constantly talking down to people and you’re the boss and you’re in charge when you’re say those, you’re gonna miss out on a ton of great ideas.

Danny: [00:28:06] Super super good tips there and especially last one. I just want to build on that. About open communication with your team and being open to a feedback loop from what you’ve done wrong. One thing that I’ve started to implement last year that had a huge impact is whenever an employee or a contractor someone makes a mistake or messes something up, I always put it back onto myself as like Okay how might I have caused this to happen. Usually about 80 percent of the time I can actually attribute a good share of that mistake to me not communicating something well enough. Maybe I left out some information. Maybe I didn’t actually set my expectations as clearly as I should have. So I always frame that to them as like I could have explained this to you better, but in the future it needs to be done this way and that just gained so much respect from your team, right?

Nathan: [00:28:54] Yeah. And a quick story off of that. So back in the day, I had really bad turnover. It was probably around 50 percent. I had the third person for the same position quit on me after 3 months and all the effort and money that I put into them and before they quit or before they left, I asked them for a one-hour exit interview and there was only one type of exit interview and that’s an extremely uncomfortable one. We’re sitting across the table from each other. He doesn’t like me. I’m pretty pissed at him for wasting my time and I just listened to him. I just listen to his feedback and he went off about our culture, about the people I was hiring, our hiring process, me as a person, me as a manager, me as a leader and it was brutal. It hit me to the gut. But I should have written that guy a check right there because the information that I gained from that helped me turned the entire thing around and move my retention rate of past 95 percent because I actually listened to that feedback. So if you are someone out there that is having those issues or your team isn’t working or you’re not having the culture that you want, dive into the issue and the people that know the roots of the problems and the people that you’re working with.

Danny: [00:29:59] Well Nathan it’s no wonder you’ve been very successful over the past 10 years your business career here with an attitude like that and I really appreciate you coming on the show man, sharing really good golden nuggets here with the Actualize Freedom audience. You also have a really good resource called “The Ten Most Common Mistakes of Outsourcing.” It’s an e-book, I believe, from FreeeUp. Where can the audience find out more about that?

Nathan: [00:30:23] Yes if you go to you can check out the eBook. If you’ve been hiring and outsourcing as long as I have you’ve made every single mistake in the book. And I always wish that there was a guide outsourcing to help me avoid these mistakes upfront so I made it for you guys. And definitely check it out.

Danny: [00:30:39] I certainly wish I had found that when I was starting out with outsourcing as well. It would have saved me many months of trial and error personally. But thank you so much for that Nathan. If you want the link to that, I’ll also put it in the show notes for this episode as well as a transcript and a recap of what we talked about here so you can find that at for all of that and thanks again for joining us Nathan. Super super valuable stuff.

Nathan: [00:31:05] Yeah. Thanks so much for having me. I appreciate it.

Danny: [00:31:07] Alright. Cheers.

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[00:32:21] Thanks so much for listening to this episode of Actualize Freedom with Wilson and Danny online at If you liked today’s episode please review and subscribe and we’ll catch you next time.



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