Kevin Pasco talks about how he started as an entrepreneur at a very young age. He is the Co-Founder and CMO of Nested Naturals doing eight figures in Amazon FBA..

Time-Stamped Show Notes:
• 01:14 – The genesis of Nested Naturals.
• 08:37 – Skillsets learned that helped started Nested Naturals.
• 12:56 – Tradeoff of being an entrepreneur at a very young age and the drive behind it.
• 18:03 – Kevin talks about his desire to keep going.
• 25:24 – What makes a product better than the rest, getting the extra traffic in the crossover.
• 30:53 – Kevin’s opinion on Frequently Bought Items and ideas to make it work.
• 33:20 – Kevin talks about mastermind groups and the value of it.
• 39:59 – What Kevin is passionate about sharing with the world.

Resources from This Interview:
Nested Naturals
Jeremy Sherk
The 4-Hour Workweek
Tim Ferris
Market Intelligence
Ryan Daniel Moran
Gary Vaynerchuk
Kevin Pasco’s Instagram

 

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Full Transcript of The Episode

Intro: Are you looking to optimize your mindset and lifestyle for success in today’s business world? You’re in the right place. This is where you get to build your freedom through promoting through Facebook and selling on Amazon. Welcome to Actualize Freedom with your host Wilson and Danny.

Danny: What’s up guys? Danny Carlson here. I’m your co-host and today. I have a really special guest. Kevin Pasco one of the cofounders of Nested Naturals which is they’re doing about 10 million dollars eight figures on Amazon FBA right now very very impressive. Especially considering that Kevin is 25 years old. Your’re 25?

Kevin: I’m I’m 26 next week. So..

Danny: 26 next week man, making me look bad, but I’m super inspired by what Kevin and his partner Jeremy have been able to achieve with Nested Naturals. So I got some really cool questions for him here. So the first thing I want to start out with Kevin is. I mean, it’s pretty easy to skip you know want to [inaudible] you, you’re making 10 million dollars on the internet, but I’m sure there’s more to the story than that, right? You didn’t just start Nested Naturals and just learn all these skills and just start an amazing successful business, right?

[00:01:14] Kevin: Uh, no dude. That’s exactly what happened. No, I’m just kidding. Hehe! how far back do you want me to go? You want me to go right back to the beginning or like… Let’s go back to the beginning. So. All right. So real beginning, I was 16 and um, I never did that well in school. So I was like a C student maybe sometimes D, like a B was good. Um, and I I think that I’m smart. I think I’m a smart person.

Danny: Well now it’s pretty [inaudible], right?

Kevin: Well, yeah, maybe maybe now but it never really showed up in the form of grades. So I was always a little bit discouraged and I was always like being pushed to going that direction. Um, I got I always had like the little bit of a passion for just creative stuff, like website building like not even making money just like website stuff. So I started poking around with that, never really learned how to code but more like kind of the design part. Um, and then I went to a seminar something that my dad recommended me to go to of someone that he was interested in which was basically how he could retire and have an online business. That never ended up working out but what it did get me into was the world of online marketing, affiliate marketing, SEO, PPC like just all the real like nitty-gritty stuff. So I was 16 and playing around with that and I was fascinated because I loved how challenging it was. How different and just there was no rules like if you wanted to set up an affiliate website and drive traffic this way you could do that. If you wanted to be an investor and buy websites, you could do that. There’s so many different things that you could do. So I always thought that you know deep down inside. I have this passion to like be different and at times it’s really lonely and I’m sure we’ll talk about that a bit later, but I always kind of knew that I would do something later down the road that was cool and big and like when you got to think when you’re 16, you’re like, oh I’m going to be a millionaire like when you’re 16..

Danny: Yeah two months. It’s going to take two months and boom.

Kevin: Well, yeah, I mean, I think that I said by 20, I think I was like if I work for four years. I’m like I’ll be able to do it. That obviously did not end up working out. It never works that way,

Danny: Even though all the marketers told you that that was how it was going to be, right?

Kevin: Totally everyone’s course. That’s everyone’s course was like that and it’s like to know work and make like sixty thousand a month or something crazy so that never end up working out but what it did get me into was the tactics and I really learned and Jeremy and I call it in the, Jeremy my partner, um in Nested. We call it in the trenches. So you really just slugging it out. You’re figuring everything out. You don’t have much help. You’re just going down this path of like something so interesting and so cool that shows so much promise, but there’s not you don’t really have much to show for it. Like if anything I had a little tiny tiny bit of revenue from like one website and that was it. So went through the trenches for a while and I got a mentor which is probably one of I would say which was one of many things that had a ripple effect that led to where we are now. So, um what this was it was a mentor who was actually involved in when the programs that my dad wanted to go to and I uh, I believe that we bought one of his programs and I was just bothering him so many times the questions of like, how do I set up this and how do I set up that and I think I was the only client of his who actually was using this stuff. Like a lot of people by make money online stuff. They don’t actually end up doing anything with it. So it’s just constant like every day with it on and he reached out and said hey, um, would you want to do something together, uh, basically work for free and help me build a company. Um, and if we make any money from it, I’ll share some with you. So that’s really how it ended up working out. I did okay with that. It made me enough money for me to move out of the house when I was 18, but then it wasn’t long term enough. And then I spent all the money and I had to move back home at 19. So what do you spend all the money on at? I so I lived at home. I grew up in Calgary and I um moved out. I actually moved here to Vancouver. So I lived here for 14 months. I got a condo in Coal Harbour. Um, the one really good thing that I got from that was my car. So I bought a Volkswagen Jetta which I just sold a couple months ago. I had that thing for like six years. It was the best car ever. It never broke down like definitely that was a good purchase. But some of the other stuff I bought was stupid. I bought two blotches that were like 600 bucks each and just dumb stuff. Um, and I ended up running out and it wasn’t so much the fact that I bought stupid things. I bought a couple stupid things but it was more the fact that I win. Holy cow. I’m making what was it five thousand dollars a month or something. This is gonna continue forever like. I thought that just because you get to that level that it will continue forever and ever and ever and it will never stop and it basically stopped and I had savings and I ran out and I went oh crap, like I can’t even pay the rent at the end of 14 months in this nice expensive apartment downtown.

Danny: Especially in Coal Harbour, [inaudible].

Kevin: Which to be fair this was five years ago and rents were a lot cheaper than they are now. In Coal Harbour, it’s about 20% more but um, So went back home and this is where I got approached by Jeremy for the idea from Nested. So my mentor at the time had a Business Partnership, um Venture with me, and he also had one with Jeremy. And the difference with Jeremy’s is his was successful. So he was actually running that company for a couple years. It was doing okay. It wasn’t as big as Nested is now but you know, he was by most people’s definition successful work in the 4-Hour workweek. Jeremy talks a bit about that of his experience and we connected because we had a long comment like we had both been through the trenches we had both had the same frustrations and struggles and made through. Uh, plus we were interested in the same thing. So he actually approached me and said hey, I think there’s a big opportunity for us to do something specifically with supplements because a big passion of ours is to do something different and have um honesty in Industry that isn’t so honest and we thought that Amazon would be a great place to go because they were just starting to blow up. So big frustration when you’re a marketer is you work so hard and almost nothing works. So like you can spend 300 hours on the PPC campaign and it just bombs and goes nowhere and loses money. Um, at least that’s what it feels like in the beginning when you don’t have your skill set built up so we felt like, oh at least there’s customers over on Amazon if we could just convince them to buy us over someone else, we think that we’d be able to get a sale from that. Um…

Danny: Okay. So this is the Genesis of Nested Naturals right here, right? Um, so up to this point with your other other Ventures and getting started in online marketing stuff. What would you say were the main skill sets that you learned that really really helped you when you were starting Nested Naturals. What did you get out of those initial failures or you know short-term successes that you have?

[00:08:37] Kevin: So I mean the interest in the learning is huge because when you’re in the beginning and you don’t know what you’re doing and you’re just trying to figure it all out, you’re gonna suck for a while. Like it’s you’re not gonna be as successful as you think you are. So you at least have to care and be interested in the stuff that you’re actually doing even if it doesn’t work. So if you really love Facebook ads because you love the creativity and putting all the pieces together. You might suck at that but at least you like doing it, um and being passionate about learning that’s also really important getting the skill sets of being totally honest and going to where the people are and following the data for lack of a better. So I there’s kind of a science and an art between creativity and Instinct and then tech skills and data. So if you’ve made all your decisions off of data, products would look really weird like our products very science back. We have a literal research and development team, um with incredibly smart people with Masters and PhD degrees and everything. That’s really scientific to build out these products, but then we also have the creative side of amazing campaigns, wording, branding, everything from the emotional side that comes in. So I think there’s a balance between the two where you have to have the skill set of data and one is getting the data period. So there’s some amazing tools out there that can give you the data but then two you have to be creative as well because a lot of people are buying into your, the feeling that you give them. So we don’t just sell supplements. We sell whatever problem fixing from the supplements So when you buy our sleep aid, you’re not buying a sleep aid. You’re buying a better sleep when it shows up at your doorstep with Amazon Prime in two days or less. So that’s really what you’re getting. Um, and you have to understand that. So you have to be able to listen really well to what’s going on the market and then be able to adapt to that. Um, I’ve noticed that we have that times become a little bit too adaptable where it’s like if anything changes we just adapt to it right away. I think that’s a really good thing in most cases because people are not adaptable and they push away change, but at the same time you really need to remember what you’re doing and why you’re doing it. Um, and if you adapt to uh, the wrong direction and you go too far you can actually end up harming your customers or your company. So you need to stay true to the vision. But you still need to be able to change a little bit. So great example is if you try to build a company right now that’s focused solely on getting into I don’t know for example Toys R Us. Uh, didn’t they go bankrupt?

Danny: I’m gonna say [inaudible].

Kevin: They went bankrupt like a month ago or something. So obviously not the best idea so you have to be adaptable and go oh gee, I guess my customers aren’t Toys R Us anymore. Where are they going? Oh, they might be going on Amazon. I’m gonna go look up that. And then change your direction to follow suit. So kind of to summarize I think be very flexible um while at the same time understanding what’s going on. Some of the best I think products and some of the best companies are the way they are from just listening to what’s happening and not trying to change the world into something that they want to mold. It’s just simply to enter into the world um provide value and if the people and the customers accept them, they’ll be embraced and they’ll just have this flood of customers.

Danny: Such a powerful thing to learn before getting into Nested Naturals. And I love that you’re bringing this up because correct me if I’m wrong here, but I bet you a lot of people they come to you and they’re like, oh my goodness, you’re 25 years old. You’re like you have all this amazing success like this is so just so incredible. Like how did this happen such a short amount of time but. Like what you just told us you started out you were 16 years old online hustling, learning all these skills, getting all the preparation in place. When I was 16 years old man. I was just worried about like, how can I get a girlfriend? How can I go party? Like, how can I pour money for beer on the weekend? You know what I mean?

[00:12:56] Kevin: Yeah. I you know, I thought about this. I mean, I definitely think that there’s a trade-off and I think that became conscious over time. At the time all I cared about and my whole like driver in my mind was really economic. It was like, how can I make money, provide for myself, do something different, have a good life, you know and I was just thinking about the future and I missed out on a lot of experiences that other people had like so I didn’t go to college. Um, which I’m which I think was great for me might not be great for some other people. Um it obviously ended up working out for me. Um, and I don’t regret it, but I’m conscious of the fact that I definitely missed out on a series of experiences in life that I may not be able to get back. So for example, um, I think I was listening to an interview with Scooter Braun, Justin Bieber’s manager who is one of my big influences right now for how he runs his business. So I like the idea of an entertainment-type business and he’s a good example of someone who’s not sleazy in an industry that’s pretty sleazy. So I I like a lot of the concepts that he has in his head and he was saying in an interview which I totally agree with that because he didn’t go to college and he just went into he worked for so death and worked with artists like Ludacris and uh, there’s a bunch of others that I’m totally blanking on right now. He got successful early like like way more successful than I am now way earlier than I um, or how old I am now, um, and he recognized that he missed out on life experiences that he could have gotten and he was a little bit. I don’t know if it was regretful, but he was cognizant of the trade-off and I think that’s something that you know a lot of entrepreneurs talk about and it’s it’s tough because you’re doing all this hard work and all of this sacrifice like working late and not going out on weekends and just working like crazy and working 80 hours a week. So you don’t have to work 40 hours a week in a 9 to 5 job. And you’re doing it for a greater purpose. You’re doing it for a reason to set yourself up for the future to do something further off to feel challenged to feel purpose like there’s a lot of reasons why and I definitely think that it’s worth it. It’s certainly been worth it so far. Um for what I have now, I’m really glad that I had to suck in high school and then coming out of high school. And just all the stuff that I went through then to have what I have now, but in the grand scheme of things what I have now is nothing compared to what I need to have in the future. So there’s there’s this powerful thing going on of like you need to suck now to be good in the future, but then your mind starts to take over of well if you can make it this far, you can go from 0 to 1. Why can’t you go from 1 to 10 and then 10 to 100 and that’s where this like competitive mindset comes in at least for me where it’s like it’s not that I’m not grateful for having the size of company that we have to help as many customers as we do and to have 18 or 19 people working in an office literally three blocks from here which are working right now by the way.

Danny: Yeah, really close by.

Kevin: Yeah. Um, it’s not that I’m not grateful for that because I am and I think about it, you know all the time. I’m so happy to have all these people and these opportunities and I would never change it for anything but you’re always thinking of what’s next. You’re always thinking of okay, it’s great that we got to a 10 million dollar company. How do we go to 100? How do we do partnerships and do, you know, investor raises and all these crazy types of things when when you started the company, all you thought about was if I could just make 2500 a month. I could quit my job and I’d be good. So it’s interesting how things change there. I think it’s important to think that it’s okay to think that there’s always something better and it’s okay to always push. But you can’t be shitty and complain and you got to recognize what you have because what you have now is probably a lot more than what you had before and it’s probably always going to be like that too.

Danny: So how do you balance the desire to keep growing and continue like that challenge for yourself and like to see what you can do in all of that. How do you balance that with just being dissatisfied with where you are now because you can go like extreme on either ends right you can just, you know, if you’re extremely dissatisfied with what you’ve achieved and where you are, then you know, the more successful you get you’re never going to be satisfied, right? So like how do you how do you find that balance for yourself? Or do you do anything to to be cognizant of that?

[00:18:03] Kevin: For me, and this is just a totally like honest straight up answer. I don’t know how much it’s going to apply to other people who are listening. It probably will to some but I just feel this deep responsibility to keep going.and I was given so much already. So when you think about it, you know, I grew up in a middle-class home. Um, not poor, not rich, great in the middle with food on the table. Um, I had a great mom, um relationship when I was with my dad when I was a kid was good. I had two brothers. Um, I was able to go through school fine, go take a risk not go to um University. Take all these risks plus we live in one of the greatest countries. If not the greatest country in the world. We have opportunity all around us. You basically need you can start a start-up with like $100 or less. You can go to Starbucks and work from Wi-Fi. You don’t even need your own Wi-Fi connection. So there’s so much going on and for me personally deep down inside with division that I can see moving forward. There’s this like responsibility to do something incredible and to do something really big. So I thought at times like do I really, you know, do I just want to have this like nice little one person or two person business and do like the 4-Hour workweek or not or just work from home and like, you know have a family and raise kids, which is really important to me to raise kids but to not sacrifice my professional growth for that. I don’t think that there’s anything wrong with people doing that. I really respect that. I think it’s an amazing opportunity for someone to be like a stay-at-home dad and still crush it and make like a million dollars a year like that. You can’t say that’s bad at all.

Danny: That is super badass.

Kevin: Super badass. Um, but I just feel like that’s not for me and I have a vision of doing something a really big. Um and then be if I could get it like the one-two punch would be in multiple verticals. So if I could crush in the startup space and crush it in e-commerce for this first phase of my life then maybe go over to real estate investing or the entertainment industry. I have this weird thing at like once I’m I have this theory that’s easier to become an actor if you’re old so like think of like movies and TV shows there’s always like an 80 year old dude, right who gets like one or two lines in a show and it’s like you really think that he’s been an actor his whole life. Probably not like so I’m like at the end of it all I’m gonna go become an actor and bit like 75 and get like a line in like a famous movie or something and just just to go crazy all over the place because there’s almost so much opportunity now that it’s almost the problem as you can’t pick like if I really wanted to like the Vancouver, uh film school is a couple blocks from here. Um, There are some massive Hollywood Hollywood North production companies that are in like literally this part of downtown. If I really want to work and become an actor at least one that got screen time. I could probably do it or I can build a million-dollar company or I could say screw it and go to Nicaragua and travel and like so there’s so many things and I feel like there’s a responsibility for me to to go as far as I possibly could because when we started this company, I always imagined it would do well, but I never imagined it would be a 10 million dollar plus company with 18 employees, soon to be 20 and far beyond that with a huge office space an in-person team like it’s crazy how far you can go when you just say I want to do something cool and great. Let’s go do this instead of thinking in your mind, oh a million dollars a year as the cap when it’s not really the cap because you can go a lot further than that. So there’s a deep responsibility I think and just a curiosity and something there’s just something inside that kicks me to go do it. I don’t really know what it is yet, but I’ll go figure it out.

Danny: Yeah, I definitely I definitely see what you’re seeing there. Like I can definitely relate on I think that we live in a time that is one of the most exciting times to be alive where there is. Literally the most opportunity one of the most level playing fields there’s ever been in history. You know, the internet and computers have totally leveled the playing field when it comes to business and like you can start with so little have access to literally unlimited information, um everything you need to start any kind of business. You can just go learn that for free. You can take free courses on Stanford’s website. Free Stanford courses. You will get the certification unless you pay for it, but that’s not the point right that yeah such an exciting opportunistic time that we live in so like I also feel almost a pressure like almost a deep fomo fear of missing out of hey if I don’t do this right now, um, this is a missing the boat on the most exciting time has ever been in human history.

[00:23:16] Kevin: Yeah. There’s also that saying of Tim Ferriss said before, “Easy choices, hard life. Hard choices, easy life.” And what that means and I can see this I kind of like pay attention other people’s life choices and some of my friends and like people I went to high school with and I can really see that play out when you make the easy choice and go get a degree not even to get a degree but to just take the path that was chosen for you. Um and kind of handed to you and say just we’ll just go do this. Um, it can often lead to a much harder life than if you made. The really hard choices and put in the hard work early on, it sets you up for a super easy life. I mean a lot of people, you know, I’ve heard of, you know, even big CEOs all the way to just you know, um entrepreneurs who are traveling the world, you know, they have assistance. They have housekeepers. They have help they have all this support and it’s because they were able to set themselves up for that and if you don’t make those hard choices early on. It’s it’s tough to have both to have an easy life and not make the hard choices. You have to sacrifice one of the other.

Danny: Oh, absolutely. I mean I used to be a carpenter and that was the whole reason why I started in business is because I hated being a carpenter. That was the easy choice put in front of me, you know in high school. There’s like some some course I can take where I get my college credits for carpentry and you go and this and you pretty easily make a a decent, uh amount of money pretty quickly. But that life sucks man like that. I don’t like being a carpenter. I totally hated it. So, um, I definitely agree with you on that one. So I just want to pull her back a little bit more into some tactical Amazon stuff here for a second. One thing. I’ve heard you mention is that you do have one or two products that they perform decently better than the other similar products you do on Amazon. So for example, if you type in fidget spinner and everyone else is making $50,000 a month. then you’re fidget spinner is actually making $80,000 a month. So what do you think are the drivers for that? Like how are you getting that extra traffic in that crossover? Um stuff there.

[00:25:24] Kevin: So when we look at this we do the terminology of baseball. So we look at what’s a home run versus what’s just the base hit. So base hit would be to do a fidget spinner and make 10,000 or 20,000 month. That would be good. But it’s your your your under the top of the market when you have products that are either a product comes into an existing market and goes well above me on. So this market was doing 50,000 a month and all of a sudden this competitor comes in and maybe six months or even four months later, it’s doing 80,000 and 120,000. Or you already see a market that’s like that where there’s one guy at the top the outlier that is doing that much. Everybody else is like fighting for scraps at the bottom. So when we look at those markets, there’s generally stuff that is cognizant across the outliers and it’s usually obviously an incredible amount of reviews and an incredible quality of reviews. So we’re not in the the weight loss game at all. We don’t do any weight loss products. But if you go and look at weight loss products on Amazon, you’ll notice that the ones that are crushing it have before and after photos, uh that people have attached to their reviews and they’re very convincing. In fact, some of them have dozens of those. So the review part on Amazon has now become like a competition of who can sell the most and their reviews and that becomes really popular for products that are crushing it. You can also correlate amount of reviews to um monthly sales. So there’s a couple tools out there. Um Market intelligence from Viral Launch being one of them that you can uh, basically use their data to correlate how many reviews they have and how many monthly sales they’re doing and figure out with some simple math how many reviews you would need to do something similar. So that all kind of hinges on you having good brand awareness and a good brand period, a product that actually works and customers really love. Um something that looks a bit more premium. If you were to see that product on the shelf and whatever store you would normally buy from so a vitamin store or a toy store or whatever, would it really look like it’s been on the shelf for a long time. It’s uh, you know a product that you would normally see you would never think twice. Oh, why is that product there? Like, it’s just it’s meant to be there. It’s you know, as you look at some projects here like that just looks like it owns the shelf on retail. So you want that type of presence, uh combined with an incredible listing. Um an amazing reviews to back it up plus great marketing on the other front too. So, um, we got through that in the past. We decided to do products that we’re looking at the market and then some of those products actually ended up skyrocketing and we crush the market and now we’re the number one and that was just built up over time. And uh, it’s about getting really it’s about getting all the pieces together. You probably can’t be the number one in your market, especially number one way over the others if you’re not crushing it in every aspect. So branding, listing, reviews, everything has to be optimized to the teeth, I think you get all that stuff together your chances of rising up are a lot higher. To be fair though, you don’t need that. So there’s a couple like it all depends on your strategy. If you really want to go knock it out of the park and have the number one product, that’s what you would need to do, but there’s nothing wrong with having maybe five times as more products, but they’re all knocking out base hits. Like a base hit is okay, like you need base hits. You can’t just go for home runs. Um, so we try and do a mix and a balance of the two. Um, it depends on where you’re most comfortable and where you want to take your risk, um, depending on what product categories.

Danny: Yeah, like that analogy, um, what an interesting analogy that came to mind for me. I used to be a downhill skateboard racer and I was always like a little bit more conservative with you know, my strategies like where I’m going to make a pass like I’m calculated risks. So I would you know, I would be going for the base hits all the time, but I definitely had buddies who um, they were going for a home run every single freaking time. You know what I mean? They were they would crash out. Probably 60 or 70% of the time just because they’re just going for a too hard every single time. So yeah, I think that’s a really good analogy of you don’t need to have home run products all the time. Like everyone says, it can have a bunch of base hits and can still do pretty good, right? Yeah. Um, so I mean that all makes perfect sense. I’m wondering I don’t know. If you have any data on this kind of stuff since obviously Amazon doesn’t give you a whole lot of data. But um more on their really technical marketing side of thing for your marketing nerds out there. I’m wondering how much the Amazon frequently bought together section falls into that. Like if your other Nested Natural products are showing each other on the frequently bought together section. And if you’re cognizant of that or maybe maybe sending your email list traffic to those products as well and how much those two things might factor into um what we’re talkin about here.

[00:30:53] Kevin: Frequently bought it. That’s a good question. We don’t have as much data supporting that although I’m just logically thinking obviously the more products that your brand has that are frequently bought together the better. So I guess it’s more of a question of how much money do you want to spend and how much time you want to spend going to create that for a lot of our products that happens naturally. So I think one thing that you could do if you don’t want to put a lot of time and effort and really go geek out about that. Is just to choose products that would be frequently bought together. So if you have camping gear, you would have uh, sleeping bag and a pillow and those two things are most likely going to be frequently bought together. Um, so I think that’s kind of in the natural sense the the the way to get it without really having to work for it or to modify it or to hack it or anything. Um, but with that being said, you could probably do some cool stuff with um, you know an email program. You could if you haven’t, you know, and this is the power of having an audience ,um is we can blast out one email tonight and say hey we’re gonna put these two products on sale. Here’s a coupon code. If you go grab them in the next 48 hours, we’re going to give you this. And we’re gonna tell people which you know, is, companies do this all the time. Like how many times have you seen get this together and get that or buy two get one free or anything like that. Um, if you have a big enough audience, all you have to do is send out one email or make one social media post Boom everybody buys it within a 48-hour period and then you can monitor and see and see if Amazon sticks it and then see how that goes over time. Um, it just depends on how much money and time spent on.

Danny: Yeah, okay. It could be super powerful. Like you have a massive email list just to do that stuff, right? So the last thing I want to go into here Kevin is I know that you’re someone who you do a lot of mastermind group stuff with various other successful business owners, um, you know you pay for coaching in the past and stuff like that. Actually, we actually met each other on the plane on the way to capitalism conference over Ryan Daniel Moran, which was a fun coincidence there. So what I want to know is how much of a difference like what is the main value that you get from these mastermind groups and from the coaching? And how do you how do you evaluate if it’s a good opportunity for you personally or not?

[00:33:20] Kevin: Yeah, so without a question massive value. So the way at least in the Amazon game the way it works is usually the good stuff originates in like a mastermind group. Or some really smart person is figuring out and might share a little something here and there or there might be an idea that pops up and you go, oh, that’s a good idea. I should I should get my team on that or they usually originates within the high-level groups probably just because it’s high level smart people with all you know, a common interest put together in the same room. It’s just that’s the formula of that kind of breeds, new innovation, and new strategies and new techniques. So, then it kind of filters down out from there to uh courses and then it goes down to free level podcasts and YouTube and blogs and generally I mean, we we think that tactics are important, um and hacks and the little kind of tweaks that you can make that are working now that’s like the short-term stuff. We don’t ignore that. Um, you know, you hear a lot of people talking about focus on the long game, you know only focus on what works ten years from now. I think that’s a good mindset to have. We definitely have that mindset but you can’t ignore those short-term stuff that’s working right now because you can use that as like a little level up in your company and you get a lot of that through masterminds. You get amazing support. You get to talk to smart people, um that understand what you’re going through, um can relate to you and offer amazing Ideas that can help grow your company. And when you think about it to whatever amount of money you spend on a mastermind, if you can’t really say at the end of the year that your business grew more than I would even say 10 times, then either it’s you or it’s just a terrible master mind and they’re charging way too much for it. So use your mind in and obviously make the right choice and speak to other people about it. Um, but I I can say that we wouldn’t have as big of a company if it weren’t for being in a mastermind because of the connections and the opportunities that came from being in one. So, uh that’s been hugely powerful and just as a support network too like you don’t want to do this alone like as as like hard-ass and as confident and as like hard-charging you can be at times. Um, it’s nice to have people around you that totally get it and I just like. man, like that sucked and you can bitch about it and get it out and then move on to the next thing and know that you’re not an idiot. You’re not failing. You’re actually really succeeding because you’re in this group with dozens or hundreds of other amazing people. So I would I would highly recommend it. Um, and I would talk to people. Talk to successful people if there’s someone that you really, you know, see that’s crushing it like just ask them just say like hey like do you have a group, do you know someone who has a group like you’ll find out about this stuff a lot through word of mouth and just asking. So um, then once you go from there, get into it and figure it out and I I think that if you can’t if you can’t get an ROI from it, there’s got to be something wrong like like you gotta screw it up. Like there is no way that you can be a smart capable person with a decent business and go into a mastermind and not 10x your money. Like it’s just something’s wrong.

Danny: Yeah, I love that whole frame of like yeah, I you spend $1000 on a mastermind, but what you learn there and the people that you meet there and all that stuff probably gonna make you at least $10,000 by you know, if you actually take action on that stuff right. Love that frame of mind as an investment instead of an expense and I really like your point about how to normalizing all the crazy entrepreneurs ship stuff to you. It’s it’s really good reminder to to know that you’re not insane because around a bunch of other entrepreneurs who are also doing similar stuff and it’s normal to them, right? So it really normalizes it like I remember um, one of my biggest business mentors at the time. I was going through like really tough time in business making some really expensive mistakes and then he told me a personal story about him getting sued for 13 million dollars and all this crazy stuff and like you lost everything and then like he’s still good. He rebuilt a business and he’s got several very successful businesses now and um, really puts it into perspective, right? What you going through is not the end of the world. Other people have been through crazier or similar things. So you just kind of surround yourself with other entrepreneurs who are equally as crazy as you, right?

[00:38:03] Kevin: Yeah, it’s… You believe it’s crazy. Yeah, that’s good. And you know, um, I heard just recently at a mastermind a couple weeks ago that you know, you don’t want to succeed so slowly that you think you’re failing. A lot of people go through that. Where in the long run like you’re just up into the right the whole time. Uh, but if you look at the day to day, you feel like you’re eating shit, even when you have a multi-million dollar business. So you have to be careful of that and when you’re around other people that are crushing it or especially people that are lower than you and might have, you know, if a mastermind is good, they should have, you know, certain standards and requirements to be in it. They don’t let just anyone in. So there’s going to be the low level people just who made the requirements and maybe you’re at the middle or the top of the pack, you’re going to look down and go, oh I used to be one. Because when we got into the main mastermind that we’re in, we just made the cut. Like I’m telling you the the requirement was like a million dollars a year or something like we made the cup like a day like we just scraped in and we’re there for the first meeting and that meeting we met a seller who is doing two million dollars a month and we were doing 80 something and we just went whoa. Like your mind it just explodes when you figure out like you think that you’re doing good. Just wait until you hear some of what other people are doing. Um, and that really can motivate you and inspire you.

Danny: Yeah, I’m super with you on the mastermind things Kevin. So I’ve noticed that you’ve been doing a lot more speaking engagements, you know, you’re with us here and doing this podcast. You just spoke a capitalism conference. Um, it seems you’re working on a personal brand and you’re trying to build a platform for maybe get a certain message out there. You have a you have a certain direction that you want to really take your personal brand or something you’re passionate about sharing with the world.

[00:39:59] Kevin: Yeah something so I want to treat this like a creative project and do something that goes against the rules of this like, you know. because I grew up doing marketing and grew up in my business life, you know marketing. I’m CMO of of Nested and you know, I think in terms of marketing. So I want to do something that gets out to people but it’s done in a totally different way. And my whole thing is I just want to show um, the realness and not like the Gary Vaynerchuk yelling because like I love Gary V, like amazing. I’ve he signed a copy of Crush It! For me and wrote my name in it like I’m framing that like the dude is awesome. Um, but there’s a certain expectation and there’s a certain uh mole that that all entrepreneurs fit into it. There’s like either get rich and be successful or 4-Hour Workweek and they’re there isn’t much of like a identity in between that when it comes to being an entrepreneur. Um, There’s parents. There’s young people. There’s old people like it’s very diverse and I don’t really see that showing up in terms of content on YouTube. So I’m just like this dude trying to figure it out and I’m gonna throw some stuff up on YouTube and just see how it goes and try and show what actually goes on behind the scenes because um, I don’t think that I’ve done anything special or remarkable. Um, beyond just keep pushing it um, and that’s led me down this path of. being able to have you know this massive company and you know living this incredible city and have all these amazing things and I get to do podcasts on what is it four o’clock on a Tuesday, like, you know, just all these random cool things and I want to show more of that to just kind of open people’s eyes up to to see what you can do especially being so young with no college degree as well. So I don’t know what I’m doing. That’s more of a sort as I don’t know what I’m doing and I don’t care because we’ll just we’ll figure it out.

Danny: Well, Kevin you certainly have an air of authenticity around you. I love the positioning of what you’re trying to do just like this is really how it is to be an entrepreneur and this is my experience and everything like that. You’re also a really good public speaker, so I’m sure you’re going to be successful in that venture there. Where can people where can people follow you when it comes to that?

Kevin: Yeah, so I mean shoot you probably haven’t set it up yet. Um, bear with me so we’re on the social media part. Um, just Google my name. So look me up on Instagram or YouTube. Those will probably be the two biggest things. I think Instagram and YouTube will be like my main Hub. Um, so look me up there, connect, shoot me a DM, uh, let me know what’s good and then I’ll try and get back to you.

Danny: So yeah guys and we’ll update this in the show notes too. If you go to the blog post for this podcast, ActualizeFreedom.com/18 , then we’ll update the links on there once Kevin’s got that all set up. But man, it was an absolute pleasure to have you on here.

Kevin: Thanks for having me man.

Danny: So many golden nuggets just raining down on you super inspiring to see what you’re doing at 25 years of age just a couple blocks away from where we are right now man. Um…

Kevin: I’m hanging out anytime. Door’s always open.

Danny: Excellent. Yeah it’d be cool to come see your meditation room and all the awesome stuff. I know you got it set up in the office there.

Kevin: Yeah. That’s fun.

Danny: Thank you so much, man, and um, definitely reach out to Kevin if you want to hear more about his new project going on there and see you on the next episode.

Outro: This podcast is sponsored by Kenji ROI: Obsessively optimized copywriting, product photography, videos and PPC for a highly cohesive feel and high conversion rate. Avoid expensive miscommunication with Freelancers who don’t understand Amazon. Kenji ROI’s team has produced over 600 Amazon listings responsible for multi-millions in annual sales for their clients. Clients know they’re covered with Kenji’s guarantees. After work has been delivered, their experts help you resolve any potential issues or concerns to an extreme level if you’re still not happy, you’ll get a full refund. What kind of crazy guy makes a guarantee like that? Listeners of the ActualizeFreedom podcast get a 10% discount for life on all Kenji ROI listing creation services. But only for the first 50 claims. Type in Go.KenjiROI.com/AF. Pause this podcast right now and claim your code. Like I said once 50 are claimed, they’re gone forever. So go now to Go.KenjiROI.com/AF to get your code now. Thanks so much for listening to this episode of Actualize Freedom with Wilson and Danny online and ActualizeFreedom.com. If you like today’s episode, please review and subscribe and we’ll catch you next time.

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